“Believe me, you are not a lost cause to me.” in response to my “Please don’t consider me a lost cause and please write back. I need help.”
I wasn’t implying that you thought I was a lost cause, I simply wanted to get across the message that I was begging to once again receive attention. I very much appreciate your quick response, though don’t feel you have to respond with-in an hour lol…

I’m listening to “Consider the Lilies” on repeat right now; I know God is mindful of me right now and always.

“I will love you as a brother or a sister, whatever you decide to do.”
Thank you!

“If the Spirit told you that you could be female and live a wholly female life in the eternities, including being a wife, mother, sister, [daughter,] everything—but only if you lived faithfully as a male in this life—could you do it? Would that be enough?”

Yes!! And I don’t answer naively. I’ve had years to think about questions like these. I would greatly desire to be “female and live a wholly female life in the eternities, including being a wife, mother, sister, [daughter,] everything” and would suffer the cost of living “faithfully as a male in this life” for it.
I have received no such offer : /.
In late 2001 or early ‘02 I was told by the spirit that after this life I could be given a glimpse into being female including a pregnancy/giving birth experience.
…but what do I have to live for in this life?

And in response to your earlier post, I’ve tried coping mechanisms like yours. In 1999, during nearly half of my school days, I would wear pantyhose under pants… and that was a high school summer school class (shorts on the other days).

Anything implying or suggesting my being (a) male is depressing, makes me feel low in worth–not good enough to be female–who I feel to be inside!! It makes me feel sad and begs me to question “what did I do wrong or why wasn’t I able to be blessed as a female in this life or am I not good enough to be blessed as a daughter of God or why wasn’t I able to join the young women and recite their values with them??” etc

If I lived as a male I wouldn’t want to hear masculine pronouns. I’d rather be called “it” then “he”.

Maleness feels a curse and a stink and a cancer and a disease. My male anatomy grips onto me and sucks the life out of me like a leech.

Everyday is like a funeral. Everyday, miss me is locked away up in a tower or down in a dungeon, left to weep, wondering if she will EVER get to live a single day. She hasn’t gotten to run through fields in her bare feet. She hasn’t gotten to go to the prom. She yearns to know what it would be like to have a real friend. Everyday she cries.

“I know that transition seems like the One True Path to Happiness.”
No. I’m realistic. I know that it wouldn’t solve my problems. If I had been born female or if I physically become female I’d still have (many) problems. I’d still have tough decisions to make, I’d still have to find my way and hopefully let the Lord help me find the right way.

“But I’ve also met some folks who have found that it is a path wrought with its own pain and difficulties.” Oh! Believe me I know! Twenty months of online friends, of friends met in person; Faithful members, other members, and others who aren’t members of our faith. I conclude and attest that transition comes with many forms of pain and difficulties.

I’m familiar with celestial kingdom references and of the three divisions therein… I assumed the worst when you weren’t specific; Apology most certainly accepted.

I’m willing to accept and adopt all female gender roles. Again, it is my greatest desire to serve as a wife and a mother and to nurture, etc. Though I am attracted to women, I would much rather be a woman married to a man than a man married to a woman. However, it’s hard for me to imagine that anyone would want to be with me as a man OR a woman, though I know there is a lot to admire about me.

“It’s amazing how quickly I plunge into dark depression if I’m away from my wife for even a day or two.”
I’m glad for you. She sounds like a great support to you. In my marriage experience, we love(d) each other, and no offense to her, but I had at least as much “dark depression” while my wife was around.

“And one last thing, and then I promise I’ll shut up.”
No! The longer the better!! …haha.
I reread your posts several times while writing mine. I eat up the words.

I want to be acknowledged as fully female to everyone.

Let me ask you a question. I’m not trying to suggest the “right” answer. Just something for you to think about. If the Spirit told you that you could be female and live a wholly female life in the eternities, including being a wife, mother, sister, everything—but only if you lived faithfully as a male in this life—could you do it? Would that be enough? Like I said, just a thought experiment to try.

I can sympathize with your happy feelings when you are able to successfully see yourself as more feminine. I mean, I can really, really sympathize. It’s a happy, peaceful, relieving feeling. And I don’t think it’s “wrong.” But I have learned I need to be careful. It’s like a strong medication. The right amount can be wonderful. Too much (or the wrong kind) can be destructive.

I also know about feelings of depression. It’s amazing how quickly I plunge into dark depression if I’m away from my wife for even a day or two. It seems all consuming. And it will sound trite, but I can vouch for it by personal experience. There is no better therapy for depression than finding some kind of service to do for somebody else. If I am focused on myself, I get all wrapped up in my problems. But when I serve others, I just feel happy. I thought it was very interesting when I spoke to my grandfather about this issue. He has served as a bishop, stake president, and patriarch. He is a wise and loving man. I told him I was frustrated because I felt like I was doing all the right things—I studied the scriptures for at least 30 minutes every day without fail, I was praying, I was attending all my church meetings, taking care of my family—but I was still in a deep, dark depression. He said, “All that is good and important, but it’s really just a bare minimum start. You need to serve others more. That is the Master’s work.” And he was right.

Regarding Church standing, yes, I agree that there are lots of unanswered questions in this area. I was just trying to encourage you to think of possible consequences. There appear to be rare cases where the First Presidency has allowed post-operatives to be endowed, but they appear to be cases where they have determined, through revelation, that the person was actually intersexed. Now, for all I know, you are, in which case surgery may truly be corrective. But the statistical probability seems to be against that being the case. I’m not trying to say I have definite answers here. I don’t. I just hope you will prayerfully consider all of the possible consequences before deciding on surgery. Think about what I said before—what if your ability to live as a female in the eternities were dependent upon you staying temple worthy as a male? Could you do it? Would that be enough?

I would be classified with murderers?? You’re prepared to make a judgment of telestial glory?
Absolutely not. I apologize. I wasn’t clear. I do not refer to the Telestial Kingdom as a “heaven” in any sense of the word. I was referring to D&C 131: “In the Celestial glory, there are three heavens or degrees.” D&C 76 sets out the requirements for entering the Celestial Kingdom. The required ordinances are baptism and confirmation. If you receive those ordinances and keep the appurtenant principles and covenants (including faith and repentance), then you will be worthy of that Kingdom. Obviously, if post-operatives are permitted to receive those saving ordinances under certain circumstances, then surgery itself does not make you unworthy of the Celestial Kingdom.

But, “in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage].” So the highest glory—exaltation—requires marriage, which according to the Proclamation on the family, is between a man and a woman. In other words, while the ordinance of baptism appears to be gender neutral, the higher ordinances of the Priesthood are gender specific. You have an eternal, immutable gender identity as either male or female. You can only receive those higher ordinances in that gender role.

I guess if I could summarize the whole of my post: I do not believe that transitioning will, by itself, make you unworthy of heaven. But it may jeopardize your ability to make or keep certain higher ordinances. I just wanted to encourage you to think about what you may be giving up as well as what you’re gaining by transition. I know that transition seems like the One True Path to Happiness. It seemed like that to me for a long time. But I’ve also met some folks who have found that it is a path wrought with its own pain and difficulties. Before you commit yourself to it, I hope that you will consider all of your options. Because yes, you do have options. God has given us a superpower called agency. It is so amazingly powerful, even God cannot stop it. Nobody and nothing can force you into a path against your will. But the other side of that agency coin is consequences. Explore them before you choose, and don’t make your choice in a fit of passion. Make it prayerfully, with a level head, in consultation with the Lord and His servants.

And finally, I honestly wasn’t trying to say you thought you were better than anyone else. Once again, trying to say too much has made my comment confusing. I think that GID has allowed me to tap into aspects of my identity that most others do not. It has been a great blessing for me. I too believe that I accepted this trial before I came to earth, at least partly because the Father explained to me that it would be the only thing that could soften and touch my heart in just the right way He needed to bring me back home. And now, it is a strong motivation to keep striving to keep my covenants.

And one last thing, and then I promise I’ll shut up. Please consider clicking on the link to the North Star discussion group on the right. You don’t have to go it alone. There is a small but loving group of us just itching to give you a lift.

Yes, the marriage has been over for more than a year and she wants to remarry as soon as possible.

“Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.”
Yeah, I knew you understood my position, I was trying to show a glimpse of how hard things are to those who aren’t transgender.

I don’t want feminine expression; I want to be acknowledged as fully female to everyone. Though my preference is a completely feminine life as a female, I would much rather {wear guys clothes, do guys things, be around guys, and everything masculine, while being a woman}, then to have the opposite of what’s in brackets. I care much more about the identity than anything else.

I started taking hormones in December 2008 and have taken hardly any–a total of 30 capsules of spironolactone and a total of 190 mg of estrodial. I ran out of hormones in July and have been slow in getting more as I have been slow to do anything. In March I decided it wise to keep my chest covered and to wear a bra when occasion would permit, though I have prevented myself from getting any more than slightly bigger in the chest. I started growing out my hair in May of 2008. The changes that have already happened to my body greatly comfort me. Though changing very slowly, I’m actually able to look at myself at the mirror and smile even when I look bad/have masculine features like facial hair that hasn’t been shaven recently, just because I’m happy in the improvement of my image.

I’m unemployed and I often isolate myself in my bedroom. Seriously, what am I supposed to be able to do when I’m frustrated? Everything is hard for me. I don’t do anything; not what should be important to me, not what is important to me, not even my fondest hobbies and interests.

I dropped out of college in February of 2008. I wasn’t going to my tax class which I loved, I was also skipping my swimming class which I love. Half the time I wouldn’t go over to my friends to watch American Idol (which show I really enjoy) because I was too depressed. I took a knife to my male anatomy in May of 2008. What does anyone expect of me? I find a hard time expecting anything of myself at the moment. I can’t handle anything. Even for those who think transition is always and completely wrong, I’m doing what perhaps could be worse, by hating the world (not using the right words), avoiding life, avoiding joy, looking to the past of how frustrating the male aspect of my life has been. I’m not making myself happy by God’s way and I’m not making myself happy by the world’s way either. I’m just being unhappy. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a very optimistic, friendly, outgoing, peaceful, comforting person, and my unhappiness is taken in that light. I’m not the type of person who would ever be unhappy…

I had a therapist March to May 2008, sometimes two sessions a week of one hour+ a week, who tried to convince me to cope as a male. NOOOO! I already tried that for my whole life prior and it doesn’t work!

I know what the church handbook says. On one side, a stake president said I’d get excommunicated if I [I don't want to make up words I don't exactly remember, but it was in consequence of a condition short of surgery]. In the middle of the spectrum of church leadership opinion (though very much an ally), I had a bishop who tried very hard to be empathetic and was very kind who went by the handbook and looked through it and quoted from it and wanted what was best for me. Lastly, on the other side, there was a bishop who said having a temple recommend after surgery could be possible in some cases and that a case could be taken straight up to the First Presidency and that the handbook was lacking in this area and that the First Presidency was very mindful and praying for LGBTs and was still counseling with God on matters.

I would be classified with murderers?? You’re prepared to make a judgment of telestial glory?
It’s not a matter of conceding to a kingdom…
I never desire to be cut away from God. I always seek the spirit and prayer in all meditation. I always turn to God when I need comfort. When I’ve been sound in heart I seek to serve God. But what do these things matter? My case remains the same either way. I can’t cope with being male any longer. My options are unclear if even existent. I have no desire whatsoever to fulfill a male role. Since women aren’t supposed to have the priesthood I will go without. Is my logic unsound?

The only thing that has kept me from fussing to the Lord a lot these past 22 months/many, many years, is my belief/answer from God that I agreed in the premortal life to have the trial of being transgender in this life. I knew it would be very hard for me to deal with in this life. It is!

“No, no, no, and no. In fact, I think it means that you are tapping into your sense of eternal identity in a particular way that most people never do. That doesn’t make you better than them…”
I never thought I was better than anyone else. About the only thing that keeps me from feeling completely and utterly worthless and below everyone else is my knowledge that I am a son or daughter of God. Though I’d much rather be a daughter, I know I’m a child of God regardless.
(as a side note,) I know my (earthly) Father doesn’t mean to make me upset, but I HATE being called a son! Hate it!!

Please don’t consider me a lost cause and please write back. I need help.

Jamie

Also, we have a mailing list for LDS Gender Identity issues that I moderate. It’s been kind of quiet the last week or so, but a new friend may be just the thing we need to inject some more conversation. If you’d like to join, click here. We’d love to have you. I think you’ll find the atmosphere loving and non-judgmental.

I guess the first thing is that there is no one universal creed that all of us have adopted. Since the Church has said so little on the subject, we have to seek a lot of personal revelation.

What I know for sure is that each of us is either male or female, and it’s not an option to “choose” to be one or the other. I am male, and wishing doesn’t make me otherwise. So I don’t think it’s really a matter of “selecting” a gender. Unless he has some intersex condition, your son is a boy.

The other harsh reality is that some people just seem to be pre-wired for gender confused feelings. If that’s the case, I don’t know that any amount of “conditioning” will make him better. I had GI Joes and Transformers as a child. My parents were caring and compassionate. I was never abused or mistreated. For some reason, my brain just seems to have some mixed signals. And I haven’t seen anything that changes that per se. I’ve just had to find ways to process those feelings and redirect them to constructive places.

I think the best thing you can do for your son is to keep loving him, and make sure he knows that he can always, always talk with you about anything, no matter how ashamed he feels. That may not take away the inclinations, just like Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” was not taken from him. But it’s a wonderful cure for the loneliness and self loathing some of the rest of us have felt.

Other than that, as trite as it sounds, I truly believe that the Lord can and will guide you with what your son needs.

There is some scientific evidence that the problem forms in the womb creating a person who appears to be a boy on the outside but has the brain of a girl (or vice versa) but I’m not sure there’s enough evidence right now that we would just automatically recommend to parents in your situation to start “transitioning” your child simply because they say, “I want/need to be a girl.”

When I mentioned before asking if he wanted to wear a dress on a family outing I hope that wasn’t confused with “talking with him about what gender he wants to be.” I was just throwing the idea out that presenting possibilities to him could help him understand his own situation better. It could be that if you presented him with that opportunity he would think, “Hmm, maybe I don’t want to be a girl THAT bad.”

When I was about six I went over to a friend’s house. This family had a bunch of boys all around my age. I knocked on the door and one of them answered and led me to his parents’ room. Everyone else was in there but one of the boys had a peach-colored dress on. I asked what was going on and they said, “He was out with our mom who was shopping for clothes for herself and he said he wanted a dress. She bought him one figuring he’d get over it if he just tried it once.” As far as I can tell she figured right. It was a one time thing that they confronted without mystifying it; he tried it out and that was it. From everything I can tell he has not dealt with any gender identity disorder to speak of and is now happily married to a girl from our stake with several children to boot. I want to stop short of saying, “If your boy wants a dress then by all means get him whatever he wants,” but I’m bringing this up as an example where dealing with an issue without shaming the boy seemed to have helped.

I’ll save more thoughts for later.

I don’t really want to think about this, and it’s hard for me to even come to this blog.

I want to say this in a way that doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings, but what I want more than anything is for “sweetisthepeace” to be right and that my son is just going through a “phase” that he will grow out of. My husband and I are hoping that we can help him learn to love his gender and to be able to overcome the feelings he has of wanting to be a girl. I am in no way ready to talk to him about choosing which gender he wants to be.

My husband is making every effort to show him extra love, affection, attention and to spend time with him doing “boy things.” I’ve learned through some research that may help.

Is there anything any of you might think, “If only I would have done that when he was younger…” that we can do to help him EMBRACE his gender?